windows vista sku web page now up

Well, Neowin was right about the Editions of Windows Vista that will be available, here they are:
Windows Starter 2007 Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Business N
In total, 8 Editions of Windows Vista, although, I would not count in the N Editions, since those just minus Media Player. So, its actually a total of 6. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/c0680472-bb5f-4a9c-9480-b16ab3eeb8f51033.mspx -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

I think we've pretty well known these since the beginning, just not what each would contain. I think, though, they said 7 editions at first.
-- Nancy Ward MSN Messenger MVP
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Well, Neowin was right about the Editions of Windows Vista that will be available, here they are:
Windows Starter 2007 Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Business N
In total, 8 Editions of Windows Vista, although, I would not count in the N Editions, since those just minus Media Player. So, its actually a total of 6. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/c0680472-bb5f-4a9c-9480-b16ab3eeb8f51033.mspx -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

this is just my opinion, but if vista doesn't get a whole lot better real soon, i not only won't be using it, i won't be recommending it or selling it to any of my clients.slow, bloated, win 3.1 icons, hard drive never stops thrashing, and the search, well, i'll just leave it there. things take more clicks to get the same job done, it's not user friendly, it's user annoying, in my opinion.
we'll see what the next beta brings, because as soon as i filed my bugs in the previous releases, i never even loaded vsta. again, i can't take it. it gives me a headache.
--
Gary
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Well, Neowin was right about the Editions of Windows Vista that will be available, here they are:
Windows Starter 2007 Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Business N
In total, 8 Editions of Windows Vista, although, I would not count in the N Editions, since those just minus Media Player. So, its actually a total of 6. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/c0680472-bb5f-4a9c-9480-b16ab3eeb8f51033.mspx -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Remember Gary... *beta* :op
It's not so bad... and regarding to the Vista editions, I still think that the whole "N" thing is a little silly to be frank - I live in the UK so know a bit or two about the EU slamming down on MSFT saying all this stuff about anti-trust and taking advantage of their position... but you know, I don't think this'll change much. What about when it comes to "Longhorn Server"... will they not be allowed to put a Windows Media Streaming Server role in there? Let's hope not... :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

Well, Business is new but the others are well known, and the Small Business Edition touted by Paul Thurrott is not in there. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm "NLWard" wrote in message

I think we've pretty well known these since the beginning, just not what each would contain. I think, though, they said 7 editions at first.
-- Nancy Ward MSN Messenger MVP
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Well, Neowin was right about the Editions of Windows Vista that will be available, here they are:
Windows Starter 2007 Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Business N
In total, 8 Editions of Windows Vista, although, I would not count in the N Editions, since those just minus Media Player. So, its actually a total of 6. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/c0680472-bb5f-4a9c-9480-b16ab3eeb8f51033.mspx -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

It won't be optimized for performance until around BETA 2/RC1. I really hope all the icons are refreshed, not necessarily high resolution, but updated to sync with the look and feel of the OS, the troubled areas are Administrative Tools, System/System 32, WINNT, Windows folders. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm "Gary Keramidas" <GKeramidasATmsn.com> wrote in message

this is just my opinion, but if vista doesn't get a whole lot better real soon, i not only won't be using it, i won't be recommending it or selling it to any of my clients.slow, bloated, win 3.1 icons, hard drive never stops thrashing, and the search, well, i'll just leave it there. things take more clicks to get the same job done, it's not user friendly, it's user annoying, in my opinion.
we'll see what the next beta brings, because as soon as i filed my bugs in the previous releases, i never even loaded vsta. again, i can't take it. it gives me a headache.
--
Gary
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Well, Neowin was right about the Editions of Windows Vista that will be available, here they are:
Windows Starter 2007 Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Business N
In total, 8 Editions of Windows Vista, although, I would not count in the N Editions, since those just minus Media Player. So, its actually a total of 6. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/c0680472-bb5f-4a9c-9480-b16ab3eeb8f51033.mspx -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

i'm very familiar with betas. been doing them since win9x. by this time in the xp timeline, i was already using it every day as my main os. i was even using millennium by this time. like i said, i can't take vista for more than an hour at a time. i don't even think i've booted into vista this year yet, filed all of my 30 or so bugs in december.
--
Gary
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message

Remember Gary... *beta* :op
It's not so bad... and regarding to the Vista editions, I still think that the whole "N" thing is a little silly to be frank - I live in the UK so know a bit or two about the EU slamming down on MSFT saying all this stuff about anti-trust and taking advantage of their position... but you know, I don't think this'll change much. What about when it comes to "Longhorn Server"... will they not be allowed to put a Windows Media Streaming Server role in there? Let's hope not... :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

I think that Small Business Server R2 will make up for the missing Vista version.
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

Thats a joke right? Small Business Server is a Server operating system, Vista is a client operating system. -- -- Andre Windows Connect | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message

I think that Small Business Server R2 will make up for the missing Vista version.
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

Well, any other suggestions?
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

Not very familiar with NT are you Mr. Beta. Did you at any time use an Alpha and which one? Just a curious person I am
-- Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
"Gary Keramidas" <GKeramidasATmsn.com> wrote in message

i'm very familiar with betas. been doing them since win9x. by this time in the xp timeline, i was already using it every day as my main os. i was even using millennium by this time. like i said, i can't take vista for more than an hour at a time. i don't even think i've booted into vista this year yet, filed all of my 30 or so bugs in december.
--
Gary
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message Remember Gary... *beta* :op
It's not so bad... and regarding to the Vista editions, I still think that the whole "N" thing is a little silly to be frank - I live in the UK so know a bit or two about the EU slamming down on MSFT saying all this stuff about anti-trust and taking advantage of their position... but you know, I don't think this'll change much. What about when it comes to "Longhorn Server"... will they not be allowed to put a Windows Media Streaming Server role in there? Let's hope not... :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

i'm not going to argue with you about anything, i don't like it so far, okay
--
Gary
"Peter Foldes" wrote in message Not very familiar with NT are you Mr. Beta. Did you at any time use an Alpha and which one? Just a curious person I am
-- Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
"Gary Keramidas" <GKeramidasATmsn.com> wrote in message

i'm very familiar with betas. been doing them since win9x. by this time in the xp timeline, i was already using it every day as my main os. i was even using millennium by this time. like i said, i can't take vista for more than an hour at a time. i don't even think i've booted into vista this year yet, filed all of my 30 or so bugs in december.
--
Gary
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message Remember Gary... *beta* :op
It's not so bad... and regarding to the Vista editions, I still think that the whole "N" thing is a little silly to be frank - I live in the UK so know a bit or two about the EU slamming down on MSFT saying all this stuff about anti-trust and taking advantage of their position... but you know, I don't think this'll change much. What about when it comes to "Longhorn Server"... will they not be allowed to put a Windows Media Streaming Server role in there? Let's hope not... :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

LOL. No arguing at all here.Just a simple question put to you and you go on the offence? Wow . I got my answer at least.
-- Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
"Gary Keramidas" <GKeramidasATmsn.com> wrote in message

i'm not going to argue with you about anything, i don't like it so far, okay
--
Gary
"Peter Foldes" wrote in message Not very familiar with NT are you Mr. Beta. Did you at any time use an Alpha and which one? Just a curious person I am
-- Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
"Gary Keramidas" <GKeramidasATmsn.com> wrote in message i'm very familiar with betas. been doing them since win9x. by this time in the xp timeline, i was already using it every day as my main os. i was even using millennium by this time. like i said, i can't take vista for more than an hour at a time. i don't even think i've booted into vista this year yet, filed all of my 30 or so bugs in december.
--
Gary
"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote in message Remember Gary... *beta* :op
It's not so bad... and regarding to the Vista editions, I still think that the whole "N" thing is a little silly to be frank - I live in the UK so know a bit or two about the EU slamming down on MSFT saying all this stuff about anti-trust and taking advantage of their position... but you know, I don't think this'll change much. What about when it comes to "Longhorn Server"... will they not be allowed to put a Windows Media Streaming Server role in there? Let's hope not... :o)
-- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!

From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH

From what I have seen from your post in this news group, and in others, you do not like any Windows operating system. Why do you continue to use them. Go use something else - they ARE available!
-- Regards,
Richard Urban (using Windows Vista 5308) Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Yes, if you're a warehouse operator, I fully agree: it's pretty much ok with the character based interface.
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH

Nonsense!
I use Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 and find it to be a Superior Operating System [SOS].
I say again, Microsoft Vista looks as if it's designed for kids.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware and diddleware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
"Richard Urban" wrote in message

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
From what I have seen from [sic] your post [sic] in this news group, [sic] and in others, you do not like any Windows operating system. Why do you continue to use them. Go use something else - they ARE available!
-- Regards,
Richard Urban (using Windows Vista 5308) Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

What I would like to see is clear options to use or disable the eye candy, so that power users who care more about performance can get their dibs, too.
I'd hate to *have* to use the eye candy.

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ =================================== "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Nonsense!
I use Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 and find it to be a Superior Operating System [SOS].
I say again, Microsoft Vista looks as if it's designed for kids.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware and diddleware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
"Richard Urban" wrote in message
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
From what I have seen from [sic] your post [sic] in this news group, [sic] and in others, you do not like any Windows operating system. Why do you continue to use them. Go use something else - they ARE available!
-- Regards,
Richard Urban (using Windows Vista 5308) Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].
Saludos,
DSH
"Juan T. Llibre" wrote in message

What I would like to see is clear options to use or disable the eye candy, so that power users who care more about performance can get their dibs, too.
I'd hate to *have* to use the eye candy.
Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ ===================================
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
Nonsense!
I use Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 and find it to be a Superior Operating System [SOS].
I say again, Microsoft Vista looks as if it's designed for kids.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware and diddleware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
"Richard Urban" wrote in message
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
From what I have seen from [sic] your post [sic] in this news group, [sic] and in others, you do not like any Windows operating system. Why do you continue to use them. Go use something else - they ARE available!
-- Regards,
Richard Urban (using Windows Vista 5308) Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

How booring.. :-/
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].
Saludos,
DSH
"Juan T. Llibre" wrote in message
What I would like to see is clear options to use or disable the eye candy, so that power users who care more about performance can get their dibs, too.
I'd hate to *have* to use the eye candy.
Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ ===================================
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
Nonsense!
I use Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 and find it to be a Superior Operating System [SOS].
I say again, Microsoft Vista looks as if it's designed for kids.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware and diddleware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
"Richard Urban" wrote in message
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
From what I've seen of it so far -- photos and descriptions on the web -- it looks as if it's designed for kids rather than for grown-ups.
Flapping, fluttering and transparent windows, animated icons, massive bloatware...
I need those like I need a hangover or a sub poena.
DSH
From what I have seen from [sic] your post [sic] in this news group, [sic] and in others, you do not like any Windows operating system. Why do you continue to use them. Go use something else - they ARE available!
-- Regards,
Richard Urban (using Windows Vista 5308) Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].

Eye candy sells. I haven't tried Vista yet as I don't have time to try a beta. If it is similar to changing from win2k to XP then once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old. I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape. After all you had complete control of the computer then.
Kerry

Some of the "old school" are not recognizing productivity raise with the properly arranged interface. But it is important, I have live examples of productivity raise just because of positive user attitude to the new nice application and also because of real efficiency brought by the different workflow reflected in the interface. Vista is not just glass, it's also quite different workflow that I personally find more appropriate for an average user.
Speaking of the "simple, robust and productive".. By the way, have you noticed that your w2k Classic works slower in XP??? I have tried in Vista - same story.
And finally, why should our screens look ugly and outdated if we spend about 80% of our lives starring at it?
"Kerry Brown" wrote in message

D. Spencer Hines wrote: Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].
Eye candy sells. I haven't tried Vista yet as I don't have time to try a beta. If it is similar to changing from win2k to XP then once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old. I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape. After all you had complete control of the computer then.
Kerry

re:

Eye candy sells.

No question about that.
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available.
It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops.
re:

I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape.

That's not the issue...and that's not needed. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it.
re:

once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old

You may be confusing "powerful" with "efficient".
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface.
However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task.

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ =================================== "Kerry Brown" wrote in message

D. Spencer Hines wrote: Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].
Eye candy sells. I haven't tried Vista yet as I don't have time to try a beta. If it is similar to changing from win2k to XP then once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old. I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape. After all you had complete control of the computer then.
Kerry

Juan T. Llibre wrote:

re: Eye candy sells.
No question about that.
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available. It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops. re: I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape.
That's not the issue...and that's not needed. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it. re: once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old
You may be confusing "powerful" with "efficient".
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface. However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task.

Good points. I did mean more powerful though. I find I am often hampered by having been using computers for so long. I sometimes do a bit of tutoring. People realtively new to computers often show me easier and quicker ways to do things with the Xp GUI than the way I am used to. Once I see the new way it is often obviously faster and easier. I was just so used to doing things the old way I never bothered to look to see if there was an easier way.
Kerry

Wow........ This is what it sounded like when XP came out. Times do change........ So should your hardware!
Ken was here!
"Kerry Brown" wrote in message

Juan T. Llibre wrote: re: Eye candy sells.
No question about that.
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available. It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops. re: I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape.
That's not the issue...and that's not needed. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it. re: once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old
You may be confusing "powerful" with "efficient".
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface. However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task.

Good points. I did mean more powerful though. I find I am often hampered by having been using computers for so long. I sometimes do a bit of tutoring. People realtively new to computers often show me easier and quicker ways to do things with the Xp GUI than the way I am used to. Once I see the new way it is often obviously faster and easier. I was just so used to doing things the old way I never bothered to look to see if there was an easier way.
Kerry

My personal hardware is fine, thank you, but I can't afford to upgrade the 500 computers in the university system I supervise.
Those will keep XP if the hardware requirements for Vista go up, as it seems quite likely, at least until support for XP is eliminated.
I'll gratefully accept your donation, if you can help us upgrade, though. :-)
Any other sage advice ? ( other than "throw money at it"... )
More importantly, you seem to be against Microsoft providing a candy-less option for Vista.
Is that so ?
I think Microsoft should provide both options. Its potential client OS market would increase if it did, imho.

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ =================================== "KR" wrote in message

Wow........ This is what it sounded like when XP came out. Times do change........ So should your hardware!
Ken was here!
"Kerry Brown" wrote in message Juan T. Llibre wrote: re: Eye candy sells.
No question about that.
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available. It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops. re: I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape.
That's not the issue...and that's not needed. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it. re: once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old
You may be confusing "powerful" with "efficient".
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface. However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task.

Good points. I did mean more powerful though. I find I am often hampered by having been using computers for so long. I sometimes do a bit of tutoring. People realtively new to computers often show me easier and quicker ways to do things with the Xp GUI than the way I am used to. Once I see the new way it is often obviously faster and easier. I was just so used to doing things the old way I never bothered to look to see if there was an easier way.
Kerry

I don't see your point. I was pointing out that change is good. The hardware reference is beyond me.
Kerry
KR wrote:

Wow........ This is what it sounded like when XP came out. Times do change........ So should your hardware!
Ken was here!
"Kerry Brown" wrote in message Juan T. Llibre wrote: re: Eye candy sells.
No question about that.
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available. It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops. re: I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape.
That's not the issue...and that's not needed. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it. re: once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old
You may be confusing "powerful" with "efficient".
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface. However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task.

Good points. I did mean more powerful though. I find I am often hampered by having been using computers for so long. I sometimes do a bit of tutoring. People realtively new to computers often show me easier and quicker ways to do things with the Xp GUI than the way I am used to. Once I see the new way it is often obviously faster and easier. I was just so used to doing things the old way I never bothered to look to see if there was an easier way.
Kerry

On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:11 am, D. Spencer Hines had this to say in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].
Maybe some day, given enough time and thinking outside the Microsoft box of

80% profit margins, Microsoft will come up with an operating system half as powerful as GNU/Linux? In the meantime, thank gawd for GNU/Linux.
-- Windows is to operating systems like Dick Cheney is to hunters... Dangerous to be anywhere close to.

re:

Maybe some day...snip...Microsoft will come up with an operating system half as powerful as GNU/Linux?

Can you describe the "superior power" which you say GNU/Linux has ?
This report : http://www.veritest.com/clients/reports/microsoft/ms_netbench.pdf says the opposite of what you're saying.
Maybe you could provide a link that attests to Linux's "superiority" ?

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/ asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/ foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/ =================================== "NoStop" wrote in message

On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:11 am, D. Spencer Hines had this to say in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:
Bingo!
We still need the Classic Windows Interface, without all the jukebox, fluttering windows stuff for kids.
Put more functional competence into the OS, rather than all this eye candy for the Technical Cybernetic Masturbators [TCM's].

Maybe some day, given enough time and thinking outside the Microsoft box of 80% profit margins, Microsoft will come up with an operating system half as powerful as GNU/Linux? In the meantime, thank gawd for GNU/Linux. -- Windows is to operating systems like Dick Cheney is to hunters... Dangerous to be anywhere close to.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

Juan T. Llibre wrote:
It should be relatively simple, however, to disble all the eye candy, so that those who don't care for it also have their choice of operating mode available. It doesn't make sense to make eye candy obligatory, particularly if eye candy slows down operations which some users need to be high-performance ops. re: I guess we could all go back to the teletype interface and paper tape. A simple command-line option, or even GUI dialogue, would take care of it. re: once learned the new GUI is much more powerful than the old
Sure, the newer GUIs can do a lot more, but more graphic eye candy doesn't necessarily equate to more efficiency.
I ( we? ) am not advocating the return of a command-line-only interface. However, transparencies and transitions slow down rendering.
A simpler GUI which doesn't use a lot of CPU power for rendering might be quite valuable to many programmers, myself included.
That said, it would be nice to have a switch to turn it back on again when we are not programming, but playing games or doing any graphic-intensive task. ================================================

Must everyone have their battle armor on? While implementing a new GUI to a new OS, microsoft does offer options (however limited) to reduce its resources (for font smoothing, video streaming etc, transitions , dragging transparancey, shadows and etc)
From what I've seen (In pictures only) I like the new look and that they finally utilized graphics technology used in older machines (3D and transparancies) into the OS and like MAC integrated ActiveX into the desktop for rss feeds and clocks and whatev. I've never heard a Mac user complain. You do get to control that availability in Vista.
I use Photoshop regularly for heavy editing with other applications open so it would be nice to have some control over what resources I want open. I would also like more control of what resouces need to be open in XP though (like launching the Spooler), MS likes us to believe we need all peripherals, connections and gamma loaders like we need a shower in the morning. It's a gluttonous affair.
BUT if you want business VISTA offers TWO executive styles. What more do you want? XP Pro is all we get now and it's not much different than home.
I remember using an Apple in 85 to draw a picture through trial and error that would take a week and half a minute to 'compute'. after that the GUI is a godsend. Creativity is a major part of my life and to be surrounded by the drab and bleak visual or otherwise needles to say is just bunk.
Bottom Line: If anything I pity microsoft right now because after helping Apple get out of a funk, Gates is playing 'catchup' in SO many ways. This is his way of showing us he's still "with it".